how much lift are you all sitting on? - Page 2

red90rover · 11-06-2009, 01:16 PM

Good lord.... Have you even stopped for one second to look at the clearance issues those enormous trusses are going to cause??

Why have you trussed the axles at all?

mdlimy55 · 11-06-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red90rover

Good lord.... Have you even stopped for one second to look at the clearance issues those enormous trusses are going to cause??

Why have you trussed the axles at all?

6k lb truck on untrussed d44s...doesnt sound good to me.

everyone keeps bashing on these trusses but i see tons of trusses just like them, someone atleast give me some good reasons to make changes and explain why, seems like everyone is quick to tell me im retarted but not too interested in helping me make it right

maxyedor · 11-06-2009, 01:57 PM

I'll bite. In my opinion, you're wasting your time putting D44s on. The strength gain is minor at best, and in reality D44s and Rover stuff are about on part, the only reason D44s hold up on Jeeps with 35s is that Jeeps are so much lighter. You said it yourself, D44s and a 6k pound truck, of course they'll bend and of course they'll break. Beyond that Rovers have wide frames and narrow axles, makes everything very tight as it is, clearance is measured in 1/16s, now you're going to run an even narrower axle?

There are a lot of guys doing trusses similar to yours, but they usually have some forethought going into how the truck will be held up. Your trusses would work fine with an SUA leaf-pack, or coil-overs mounted off the front, on a different truck. Check the clearance at bump on a Rover, with your current rear truss you'll be losing the entire truss's height in bump-travel. To make those trusses work you'll need at least 12" of lift over stock, and that much lift will make your truck tip with even the slightest crosswind. Stop, take a deep breath, and think through the next ten steps before doing anything.

BigBlueToy · 11-06-2009, 02:40 PM

Have you ever seen how the truss the axle on a Trophy truck? Lets just say your over doing it!
Put a Sal in the rear and get a Toy conversion up front. if you break those, its time for Rockwells!
You dont have to truss those.

red90rover · 11-06-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdlimy55

....someone atleast give me some good reasons to make changes and explain why, seems like everyone is quick to tell me im retarted but not too interested in helping me make it right

Because the truss will smash into the frame.....

It is way too big. That truss would make the axle 5 times stronger than before. You need to design it to clear. You need to design it to fit the spring perches and links.

Why is your truck 6000 pounds? Why do you think stock 44 axles tubes are too weak? Are you planning to race and jump this thing?

mdlimy55 · 11-06-2009, 03:17 PM

i was thinking gvw, i guess only around 4500 lbs curb weight. i wanted to truss them just to be safe, i know i over did it and my plan now is to basicly shorten the truss so it will clear the frame and so the spring perches sit on the tube.

So as far as d44 strength goes, it will cost me less to put a axle shafts, u joints, gears and a locker in these than it would in pretty much any other axle you guys would recomend to put underneath this thing, so considering i can make them strong enough i will just stick with using them.

but please keep all the posts coming, i am taking every word into consideration.

rock90 · 11-06-2009, 03:55 PM

I would say waaay too much trussing. The issue with D44 is you will have problems breaking knuckles wheeling it hard rock crawling. I have seen the steering arms break on top of the knuckles

I would say do D60's or a ford 9 axle would be better way to go.
.
Ed

PTSchram · 11-06-2009, 04:20 PM

And there are those who say I'm batshit crazy!

This is an axle!

Completely stock, just not in this truck

BigBlueToy · 11-06-2009, 04:54 PM

I am bolting a Sal from an 83 110 under my 90, $200 and its a completely bolt in Dana 60... way easier than those 44s your working on!

red90rover · 11-06-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBlueToy

I am bolting a Sal from an 83 110 under my 90, $200 and its a completely bolt in Dana 60... way easier than those 44s your working on!

Yes, but stock, they are just as weak as any rover axle.

mdlimy55 · 11-06-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red90rover

Yes, but stock, they are just as weak as any rover axle.

yea right, a sal is about as strong as a d60...wayyyyy stronger than 10spline rrc axles.

i really want the clearance of a d44 and i really am convinced i wont have a problem with breaking them, i know people that wheel much harder than i do on d44s and they dont have a problem. enough telling me to ditch the 44s and start over, im sticking with them and thats what im going to do.

i think i have what i need out of this thread so far, ill keep everyone posted on my "crazy fab"

Buckon37s · 11-06-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdlimy55

yea right, a sal is about as strong as a d60...wayyyyy stronger than 10spline rrc axles.

i really want the clearance of a d44 and i really am convinced i wont have a problem with breaking them, i know people that wheel much harder than i do on d44s and they dont have a problem. enough telling me to ditch the 44s and start over, im sticking with them and thats what im going to do.

i think i have what i need out of this thread so far, ill keep everyone posted on my "crazy fab"

Stock Sals have puny stock axles. No stronger.

I was about to commend you on your attitude, right up till this post. You didn't like the advice you got, so you took your butthurt ball and went home.

There are people here who can really help you. With the path you're on now, at the end of this build your going to have a useless pile of junk.

def9090 · 11-06-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckon37s

Thats a badass truck, but I had to.

badass?it'll be badass when i get my twin snorkels on the back for reversing

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdlimy55

the perches arent on yet, just all marked out and i tacked the mount for them on but dont have any pictures, i am planning on running spacers to compensate for the narrower axle so that shouldnt be that big of a problem, looked like im just going to cut the ends of the truss off, plate it in, and mount the perches right on the tube.

front

rear

maybe you should look at bracing the bottom too? or at least maybe run some steel on top to beef 'em up

StockChevy · 11-06-2009, 08:30 PM

Ummm..................wow

def9090 · 11-06-2009, 10:10 PM

sorry stockchevy my inner larrikin can be a tad facetious at times....

mdlimy55 sure is braced for good air time....

Kyle_T · 11-06-2009, 11:02 PM

did you stitch weld it nice and slow? if not i am sure that housing is toast now.. warped...

so, why not get the toy setup from kieth???

mightymg1 · 11-07-2009, 05:38 AM

Dude ! That is A TRUSS!

BigBlueToy · 11-07-2009, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckon37s

Stock Sals have puny stock axles. No stronger.

I was about to commend you on your attitude, right up till this post. You didn't like the advice you got, so you took your butthurt ball and went home.

There are people here who can really help you. With the path you're on now, at the end of this build your going to have a useless pile of junk.

I only bought my Sal for the housing. $200 is cheaper than changing the offset and welding on all the brackets. I will be modifying the spindles and putting a 35 spline Detroit in it. I have completely abandoned the 4.7 gears. 4.88 is where its at. Toy conversion up front and Dana 60 rear.

PTSchram · 11-07-2009, 10:36 AM

I've not found the axles to be the weak links.

This is why I have a Salisbury in the back of that Range Rover...

The axles held up just fine! And this was with 31" tires at the Badlands and A/Ts.

Kyle_T · 11-07-2009, 11:42 AM

is there a resource that explains the salsbury and what all is compatable with a D60?
IE a sals housing with D60 outers and disc brakes and 6x5.5 bolt pattern??? school me.

PTSchram · 11-07-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle_T

is there a resource that explains the salsbury and what all is compatable with a D60?
IE a sals housing with D60 outers and disc brakes and 6x5.5 bolt pattern??? school me.

I don't know of such a resource, but I have a BRANDY new rear Salisbury without outers that I'd consider swapping for a front Sals.

BigBlueToy · 11-07-2009, 02:57 PM

Gears and lockers from a 60 will fit in a Sal. thats about it. Anything else you will have to modify or fabricate. the beauty is that the Salisbury housing bolts right up to your stock suspension. modify your spindles and hubs for 35 spline shafts and get an Indestructible ARB or Detroit Locker. I have a stock 4 pin carrier and 3.54 gears and 24 spline shafts for sale cheap!

Dougal · 11-07-2009, 05:29 PM

Too much truss, not enough axle.

Have you got a rollcage? I think you might need one.

mdlimy55 · 11-07-2009, 06:05 PM

Ok so lets start over, even though the internet makes me sound like an arrogant ass hole, im really not

So im going to try and rephrase this in a way that sounds better.

I am planning on using these d44s since i already have them and parts are cheap, im confident i wont have much of a problem with breaking them with the type of wheeling i plan on doing.

Thanks to everyone in this forum i am now convinced i definetly need to size down the trusses and mount the spring perches on the axle tubes.

So if i accomplish making the trusses smaller so they wont interfeer with the frame or anything else while flexing, are there any other problems you can for see i might have? I am 3linking the front with a panhard and also the rear.
I plan on running 1" wheel spacers to compensate for the slightely narrower axle.
I know my setup wont be the best and might not work that well but i would still like to try it all out and see how it goes and would like everyones input.

revor · 11-07-2009, 07:21 PM

Sali tricks? I know a few...

D44 tricks? I've made those work for a while..

Toy stuff? I'm a big fan!!!

The WMIK P38 Axle (look it up kids) with proper truss will hold up a slightly portly 4.1 Tonne (that's metric) ass while trying to patrol and not get blown up. The P38 axle housing is no better than a standard Rover type housing.
The only thing that fails under a WMIK is the Ring gear and the Axles (upgraded)
The Toyota Rear Diff is 3X stronger than a Rover, a "plain old" D44 is very similar in strength to a Rover, the benefit being bigger carrier bearings and a HYPOID offset gear set but they have crappy pinion bearings, could be although I've never tested it, about 2X as strong, the biggest issue you will find is in the front with U Joints, they suck no matter who's they are.
Build to the new JK gears with better bearings and you will see close to Toyota strength.
I would build one of these Jk Axles in High pinion for the front of a truck but I would scab on Rover outers in place of the open knuckle junk and run 30 spline CV's... Just cause they're less irritating and strouger than U joints.

I push Toy junk because it's better, not because I sell it. If it was practical to sell 44 ideas I would.. A better bet would be that old POS the 12 bolt GM Axle, but it's pretty much the same dimensionally as a Toyota....

11-06-2009, 01:16 PM	#26
red90rover Granite Guru Join Date: Jun 2003 Member # 20109 Location: Calgary Posts: 689	Good lord.... Have you even stopped for one second to look at the clearance issues those enormous trusses are going to cause?? Why have you trussed the axles at all? __________________ 1991 D90 ex-MOD

11-06-2009, 02:40 PM	#29
BigBlueToy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Member # 88052 Location: Montreal Posts: 562	Have you ever seen how the truss the axle on a Trophy truck? Lets just say your over doing it! Put a Sal in the rear and get a Toy conversion up front. if you break those, its time for Rockwells! You dont have to truss those. Last edited by BigBlueToy; 11-06-2009 at 02:42 PM.

11-06-2009, 03:17 PM	#31
mdlimy55 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Member # 144332 Location: gresham, oregon Posts: 29	i was thinking gvw, i guess only around 4500 lbs curb weight. i wanted to truss them just to be safe, i know i over did it and my plan now is to basicly shorten the truss so it will clear the frame and so the spring perches sit on the tube. So as far as d44 strength goes, it will cost me less to put a axle shafts, u joints, gears and a locker in these than it would in pretty much any other axle you guys would recomend to put underneath this thing, so considering i can make them strong enough i will just stick with using them. but please keep all the posts coming, i am taking every word into consideration. __________________ 89 range rover, lt230 swap, currently linking and swapping d44s.

11-06-2009, 03:55 PM	#32
rock90 Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Member # 30376 Posts: 243	I would say waaay too much trussing. The issue with D44 is you will have problems breaking knuckles wheeling it hard rock crawling. I have seen the steering arms break on top of the knuckles I would say do D60's or a ford 9 axle would be better way to go. . Ed Last edited by rock90; 11-06-2009 at 03:58 PM.

11-06-2009, 04:20 PM	#33
PTSchram Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Member # 12499 Location: In the office writing letters to Land Rover's attorney, trying to stay in business, Posts: 7,923	And there are those who say I'm batshit crazy! This is an axle! Completely stock, just not in this truck __________________ Wrenchin' to riches!

11-06-2009, 01:57 PM	#28
maxyedor Rock God Join Date: Feb 2007 Member # 87150 Location: 1000 Oaks Posts: 1,350	I'll bite. In my opinion, you're wasting your time putting D44s on. The strength gain is minor at best, and in reality D44s and Rover stuff are about on part, the only reason D44s hold up on Jeeps with 35s is that Jeeps are so much lighter. You said it yourself, D44s and a 6k pound truck, of course they'll bend and of course they'll break. Beyond that Rovers have wide frames and narrow axles, makes everything very tight as it is, clearance is measured in 1/16s, now you're going to run an even narrower axle? There are a lot of guys doing trusses similar to yours, but they usually have some forethought going into how the truck will be held up. Your trusses would work fine with an SUA leaf-pack, or coil-overs mounted off the front, on a different truck. Check the clearance at bump on a Rover, with your current rear truss you'll be losing the entire truss's height in bump-travel. To make those trusses work you'll need at least 12" of lift over stock, and that much lift will make your truck tip with even the slightest crosswind. Stop, take a deep breath, and think through the next ten steps before doing anything.

11-06-2009, 04:54 PM	#34
BigBlueToy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Member # 88052 Location: Montreal Posts: 562	I am bolting a Sal from an 83 110 under my 90, $200 and its a completely bolt in Dana 60... way easier than those 44s your working on!

11-06-2009, 08:30 PM	#39
StockChevy Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Member # 37859 Location: Lacey, Wa Posts: 405	Ummm..................wow

11-06-2009, 10:10 PM	#40
def9090 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Member # 62967 Location: brisbane, Aussie Posts: 34	sorry stockchevy my inner larrikin can be a tad facetious at times.... mdlimy55 sure is braced for good air time....

11-06-2009, 11:02 PM	#41
Kyle_T Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Member # 69765 Location: Fort Worth, TEXAS Posts: 320	did you stitch weld it nice and slow? if not i am sure that housing is toast now.. warped... so, why not get the toy setup from kieth??? __________________ ~ Kyle 1999 Land Rover Discovery II - Lift, Tires, Stuff.

11-07-2009, 10:36 AM	#44
PTSchram Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Member # 12499 Location: In the office writing letters to Land Rover's attorney, trying to stay in business, Posts: 7,923	I've not found the axles to be the weak links. This is why I have a Salisbury in the back of that Range Rover... The axles held up just fine! And this was with 31" tires at the Badlands and A/Ts. __________________ Wrenchin' to riches! Last edited by PTSchram; 11-07-2009 at 10:37 AM.

11-07-2009, 11:42 AM	#45
Kyle_T Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Member # 69765 Location: Fort Worth, TEXAS Posts: 320	is there a resource that explains the salsbury and what all is compatable with a D60? IE a sals housing with D60 outers and disc brakes and 6x5.5 bolt pattern??? school me. __________________ ~ Kyle 1999 Land Rover Discovery II - Lift, Tires, Stuff.

11-07-2009, 02:57 PM	#47
BigBlueToy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Member # 88052 Location: Montreal Posts: 562	Gears and lockers from a 60 will fit in a Sal. thats about it. Anything else you will have to modify or fabricate. the beauty is that the Salisbury housing bolts right up to your stock suspension. modify your spindles and hubs for 35 spline shafts and get an Indestructible ARB or Detroit Locker. I have a stock 4 pin carrier and 3.54 gears and 24 spline shafts for sale cheap! Last edited by BigBlueToy; 11-07-2009 at 03:03 PM.

11-07-2009, 05:29 PM	#48
Dougal Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Member # 42753 Location: New Zealand Posts: 705	Too much truss, not enough axle. Have you got a rollcage? I think you might need one.

11-07-2009, 06:05 PM	#49
mdlimy55 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Member # 144332 Location: gresham, oregon Posts: 29	Ok so lets start over, even though the internet makes me sound like an arrogant ass hole, im really not So im going to try and rephrase this in a way that sounds better. I am planning on using these d44s since i already have them and parts are cheap, im confident i wont have much of a problem with breaking them with the type of wheeling i plan on doing. Thanks to everyone in this forum i am now convinced i definetly need to size down the trusses and mount the spring perches on the axle tubes. So if i accomplish making the trusses smaller so they wont interfeer with the frame or anything else while flexing, are there any other problems you can for see i might have? I am 3linking the front with a panhard and also the rear. I plan on running 1" wheel spacers to compensate for the slightely narrower axle. I know my setup wont be the best and might not work that well but i would still like to try it all out and see how it goes and would like everyones input. __________________ 89 range rover, lt230 swap, currently linking and swapping d44s.

11-07-2009, 07:21 PM	#50
revor Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Member # 15710 Location: I forgot... Posts: 1,028	Sali tricks? I know a few... D44 tricks? I've made those work for a while.. Toy stuff? I'm a big fan!!! The WMIK P38 Axle (look it up kids) with proper truss will hold up a slightly portly 4.1 Tonne (that's metric) ass while trying to patrol and not get blown up. The P38 axle housing is no better than a standard Rover type housing. The only thing that fails under a WMIK is the Ring gear and the Axles (upgraded) The Toyota Rear Diff is 3X stronger than a Rover, a "plain old" D44 is very similar in strength to a Rover, the benefit being bigger carrier bearings and a HYPOID offset gear set but they have crappy pinion bearings, could be although I've never tested it, about 2X as strong, the biggest issue you will find is in the front with U Joints, they suck no matter who's they are. Build to the new JK gears with better bearings and you will see close to Toyota strength. I would build one of these Jk Axles in High pinion for the front of a truck but I would scab on Rover outers in place of the open knuckle junk and run 30 spline CV's... Just cause they're less irritating and strouger than U joints. I push Toy junk because it's better, not because I sell it. If it was practical to sell 44 ideas I would.. A better bet would be that old POS the 12 bolt GM Axle, but it's pretty much the same dimensionally as a Toyota.... __________________ Keith [url]www.rovertracks.com[/url] Baaaahhh!

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