Ford 9" with WJ disc brakes?

[Pac8541]

Originally Posted by AgitatedPancake

What currie told you is correct, the new disc brake backing plate is going to be thicker than the drum brake backing plate, so when you sandwich it between the bearing retainer plate and housing flange, the bearing retainer is going to be pushed out by whatever the difference in thickness between the two backing plates (disc backing plate - drum backing plate = this number). That spacer currie sells goes in between the bearing retainer plate and the bearing to make up for the difference in backing plate thicknesses.

Ok, clear on that but wouldn't that mean then that I'd have to use the spacer ring in conjunction with the DRUM backing plate instead of the disc one? The way I understood what the guy from Currie said was that I needed to use the spacer rings with the disc backing plate which, if it's thickness is more than the drum plate, would seem to indicate that I'd be adding too much material between the retainer plate and bearing. What you've pointed out above says the spacer rings make up the difference lost in not using a disc plate. I'm sounding clear as mud, aren't I...

What I really need is the amount of space I need to take up if don't have any backing plates, disc or drum, and I'm bolting the bearing retainer plate directly to the housing using a spacer ring. A guy in another thread said that amount was 1/4". Since all this talk seems to be directly related to bearing preload at the housing end, I want to get it right to avoid leaks and malfunctioning brakes.

[mudtoy67]

What do you mean no drum or disk backing plate? Are you running a weld-on caliper bracket? If so you're best bet is to get a drum backing plate and cut a spacer the shape of your retainer out of it. As I mentioned before, the drum backing plate is around .150" thick...you're not going to find any plate steel in that thickness. This spacer would sandwich between your retainer plate and the housing flange.

The ring from Currie is only if you are running a bolt on caliper bracket. It is sized for use with the 8.8 disk brake brackets (which some may call a backing plate...I think this may be where you are getting confused). The 8.8 brackets are 1/4" thick, therefore the spacer should be .100" thick. I may call Currie later and see if they will confirm that.

[Pac8541]

The ring from Currie is only if you are running a bolt on caliper bracket. It is sized for use with the 8.8 disk brake brackets (which some may call a backing plate...I think this may be where you are getting confused). The 8.8 brackets are 1/4" thick, therefore the spacer should be .100" thick. I may call Currie later and see if they will confirm that.

This is absolutely where my confusion is coming from. Not being familiar with explorer brakes and relying solely upon what's being typed in an email message, I mistook "backing plate" for "dust shield." I have the large, black caliper brackets which it seems are the backing plates.

The guy at Currie described a need for both the spacer ring and the "tin dust shield" to achieve proper bearing preload. In fact, the way he described it sounds like they're both needed but have opposite effects on preload: the spacer allows the backing plate to put a load on the bearing while the dust shield prevents that load from being too great. This is where the confusion came from.

Again, if I can just use washers in place of the dust shield I'll just do that.

[mudtoy67]

I just talked to Currie. He pointed me to their "Explorer Ring Diagram" which shows how everything is installed with the spacer rings.

http://www.currieenterprises.com/ins...ingDiagram.pdf

The diagram shows no other backing plate besides the 8.8 caliper bracket. The guy I talked to says the ring is .25" thick. Confused by this thickness I asked him if they are stacking the 8.8 caliper bracket and the factory backing plate and he said no. I'm not sure how this works...seems like you wouldn't be able to get the axle retainer flat against the caliper bracket.

Another thing is the diagram shows a 2 piece ring and the picture on the website shows a one piece ring. Maybe the one piece is a new design after the diagram was made?

I need to order these anyway for my swap, I'll get them coming and see what's up.

Sorry for the hijack Pancake.

[AgitatedPancake]

Hey man this is all still constructive towards disc brake swaps in general so it's all good!

So the ring is 1/4" thick huh? Yeah that is odd to me also, I need about 3/16 of an inch for my setup, but my new brake bracket is 5/16 compared to the explorers 1/4" I think I read? So it would be even further off for the explorer.

I've been thinking I'll just make a little sliver the right height and tack it to the retainer plate to get the spacing correct.

[Pac8541]

Part of my confusion with what is necessary and what isn't comes from the terminology the guy from Currie was using. He was using the term "backing plate" interchangeably with dust shield and caliper bracket. If you look at the Currie site and pull up the part referred to as a "backing plate," it is a complete unit that includes the caliper bracket, dust shield, and parking brake. Maybe that's why I was confused as to what is needed to get these to mount right.

He stated that the spacer ring is placed inside the "backing plate" and against the bearing. He then said the dust shield is sandwiched between the backing plate and housing. I asked him for a thickness on the dust shield and he came up with .050". Actually, read this. Its a quote from the message I got from him:

Yes you have to have the spacer ring. it sits inside of this black backing plate you have, reason for it is the Explorer backing plate is very thick, and when you put the retainer plate on - it doesnt even come close to the bearing. to the spacer sits against the bearing to put the needed preload on it. this is something you for sure need.
However, its not all you need, as i can see you are missing the hardend caliper sliders, the tin dust shield, and of course all the parking brake parts. I understand if you dont need the parking brake, but you do need the sliders for the calipers, and the tin dust shield. With out the sliders, your calipers will wear a groove in the bracket and stop working as the pads are stuck in a groove and cant move. also you for sure need the tin dust shield as it has a thickness that is needed for proper preload on the axle bearing. without it you will be putting more preload to the bearing than it needs and running it tight and hot. which in turn does mean a shorter life span and a better chance of oil leaks. Problem is if you dont have the sliders its ok you can get some from your local Ford dealership, however the tin dust shield you might have to rumage through the junkyard to find them. you dont need the whole shield, just the portion that sits against the housing, so if you have some but they are bent up, dont worry about it and just cut them down and just use the center mounting portion. make sense?

[mudtoy67]

I don't get what he's talking about there either. Maybe you need to post up exactly what parts you have. Is everything you have straight off of an 8.8 axle with no modification?

[Bubba_Jeep]

I think what the "Currie" guy is telling you, is the caliper mount and the backing plate/dust shield are two separate pieces. Currie's spacer's thickness takes that into consideration. If you bolt only the caliper bracket to the axle housing, then slide in the axle, bearing and seal assembly, followed by the Currie spacer, the spacer will be too thick. Consequently, when you bolt down the axle retainer plate, there will be too much preload applied to the seal. So either include the backing plate/dust shield, or make a new, thinner spacer.
Remember, the axle bearing/seal assembly slides through the caliper mount/backing plate/dust shield assembly; you have to consider the combined thickness of these pieces when deciding on the thickness of the spacer.

[Bubba_Jeep]

Here's a good wright-up for installing Explorer brakes on a D44--basically the same as installing them on a 9"--just different axle flange pattern.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthrea...er+disc+brakes
Lots of pictures.

[mudtoy67]

Originally Posted by Bubba_Jeep

Here's a good wright-up for installing Explorer brakes on a D44--basically the same as installing them on a 9"--just different axle flange pattern.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthrea...er+disc+brakes
Lots of pictures.

Interesting that he says his caliper bracket was .350" thick. This would explain why the Currie spacer is .25". Everywhere else I have read about this conversion the 8.8 backing plate has been mentioned as .250" thick.

Hopefully I'll get my hands on some caliper brackets soon and I can see for myself.

[Pac8541]

Originally Posted by mudtoy67

I don't get what he's talking about there either. Maybe you need to post up exactly what parts you have. Is everything you have straight off of an 8.8 axle with no modification?

I have the below caliper brackets, 2 single piston calipers, rotors, bolts, etc. The axle I have was built completely by Currie for the previous owner's TJ and included the explorer brake kit that they sell. When I got it however, it didn't have the dust shield part of the kit or the e-brake assembly.

[Dookey]

sub'd

[mudtoy67]

Originally Posted by Pac8541

I have the below caliper brackets, 2 single piston calipers, rotors, bolts, etc. The axle I have was built completely by Currie for the previous owner's TJ and included the explorer brake kit that they sell. When I got it however, it didn't have the dust shield part of the kit or the e-brake assembly.

Ok, I picked up an 8.8 today. I'll get some measurements on the bracket thickness when I get it apart. From the looks of it you definitely need the tin "backing plate" if you are wanting to run the internal park brake because the hardware mounts to it and not the caliper bracket. If you're not wanting to run the park brake you will still need the portion of the plate that will be behind the axle retainer...like Currie mentioned.

Just to keep the thread on track...any updates GrumpyFlapjack?

[AgitatedPancake]

I've been doing more work with the housing and 3rd than the brakes, I set up the 4.56's and have the housing under the WJ for mockup right now so I can finalize shock mounts and reinforce the truss.

Today I did pull out the torch and cut circles to become my rotor spacers, just need to cut the center hole out and drill the bolt pattern into them.

[Pac8541]

Since Currie gave me a dust shield thickness measurement of .050" I figured I'd just run a washer in its place. I may get the dust shield/parking brake assemblies later but don't want to spend the $160 that Currie is asking for them nor do I have the time to dig through numerous junk yards at the moment.

[AgitatedPancake]

CRUNCH TIME. rollin out to fordyce this weekend so I better have this damn thing done.


Going to weld this little spacer to the backing plate, then hand file it until I have a consistent thickness all around.



And more work going into the rotor spacers, gotta pick up my brother in laws die grinder to clean up the inside area



Checklist:
Finish rotor spacers
Finish bearing spacer
Reshape shock mounts
Buy new rotors, pads, and ebrake pads
Redrill axleshafts to 5x5.

[mudtoy67]

Looking good!

[AgitatedPancake]

Thanks man. Time to ask for some help from you guys, has me stumped. So i welded up that little spacer and ground/filed it to the right height, and tried to do a test assembly of the shaft, backing plate and retainer in the housing. Well I tried, and couldn't get the bearing retainer bolted all the way on. I can get like two of the studs through with nuts just BARELY started on them, and the axle is already tight in the housing as if its already being preloaded. Once that happened I threw on the nonmodified bearing retainer and sinched it down, it actually has the axleshaft tight in the housing.

This confuses the hell out of me because the difference in backing plate thickness was so obvious...I'm not sure what to do about it yet...

Stock plate installed, holding modified. I have the caliper bracket on backwards, don't mind that.

[mudtoy67]

Is your bearing race fully seated? In this pic it doesn't look like it is. You may need to drive it with a bearing/seal driver till it bottoms in the housing end.

[AgitatedPancake]

Damn, that would be scary if it isn't. This came out of a driving TJ and I havent pulled the races, I'll definately check on it though, Thanks!

[AgitatedPancake]

Ok I went out and disassembled again to check the bearing race, which is seated fully.

When I pulled it apart though I turned the caliper bracket around, and actually slid it down the shaft past the seal to the axle flange. It's a tight fit between the ID of the center of the brake bracket and OD of the seal (within I'd say a 16th or 32nd), and there was silicone on the outside of the seal. bolted it back and it actually went together...I don't know if something wasn't seating right and binding up or what, but no complaints here! I don't like getting thrown a curveball a day and a half before a trip.


Modified plate fully installed. (BTW are there longer studs available? I'm not getting into the coned part of the nut, so no threadlocking)

[mudtoy67]

Glad you got it working.

There are longer t-bolts available, but you can just use a regular bolt and grind the head on one side to clear the housing.

[mudtoy67]

Wait, which one of these is backward?

[AgitatedPancake]

The first one is backwards haha, that tab sticking out towards the flange in the second pic is part of the drum ebrake assembly.

As for the bolts, I'll see what I can come across today

[AgitatedPancake]

Holy hell I'm shot. I put in about 12 hours on the 9" today, rebuilt shock mounts, built new bumpstop towers top and bottom, coil spring clamps, checked backlash @ .006, torqued all 3rd member bolts and nuts, got the 3rd and driveshaft installed, redrilled one of the axleshafts to 5x5, the other is half way there. I got to assembly time on the one side with the redrilled shaft, found out I needed to use (and modify) the stock dust shield to hold the ebrake shoes on so I called it a night.

Some pics from today...
Ooh new rotor. Look, the axle flange fits with room to spare without grinding.


Aaand just becuase I have no other worthwhile pics to post...sitting under the jeep